Viewing 14 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #5956

      friend
      Participant

      I keep seeing various experts etc. criticising the government’s response to the COVID pandemic.

      Seems to me to be very easy to fire shots. It’s a pretty unprecedented situation we are in and with hindsight easy to lob stones over what was done, wasnt done, could have should have been done.

      If Sweden’s response works, are another wave of experts going to start criticising governments for being over zealous in imposing lockdowns?

    • #5957

      Ian
      Participant

      The government knew more PPE was needed and chose not to spend the money on that.

      Sweden is starting to restrict and close schools.

    • #5958

      Robert
      Participant

      I think the last month or so has seen a degree of unity and feeling that we need not to rock the boat as it is such an unprecedented event and anyone would struggle to deal with the response. However, in the last few days more and more ‘awkward’ questions are being asked here and in the USA. Without Parliament sitting, it seems that journalists and individual stories from the front line are leading this narrative. Opposition parties have been reluctant to criticise for fear of being accused of cheap points scoring and of course, Labour hasn’t had a leader for years.

    • #5959

      yocal
      Participant

      A significant number of human lives depend on people in the government paying attention, thinking clearly and managing risks effectively. They have enormous resources available to help them in this.

      It’s absolutely right that there be pressure on them to execute accurately and that they should be called to account when they haven’t done those things.

      Personally I think they’ve had an easy ride so far, partly because parliament hasn’t been sitting, partly because the press seem to be going easy on them and partly because the PM hasn’t been available.

    • #5960

      eeek
      Participant

      Sweden has a ‘lesser lockdown’. I suspect that is has been possible without the surge we have had (yet), as they brought measures in earlier. They banned gatherings of over 500 people on the 11th March.

      On and after that date there were a number of events in the UK were tens of thousands of people were present. Just one example.

    • #5961

      simon
      Participant

      Hindsight, as they say is 20-20, and it is easy for us, who are not charged with directing the action, to fire shots and criticise.

      However, the government have access to the the best advice available and are, or should be, better informed than the rest of us.

      There was a lot of information available which it seems the government chose to ignore.

      This is an interesting timeline of the current issue – https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/

      It is longish but well worth reading and I think indicates the government have a lot to answer for.

    • #5962

      scats
      Participant

      Seems to me to be very easy to fire shots. It’s a pretty unprecedented situation we are in and with hindsight easy to lob stones over what was done, wasnt done, could have should have been done. <

      IMHO the government has become less transparent about the crisis and needs questioning. It is healthy that people discuss policies, see reasons for them and so are less likely to break lockdown etc. The government should be able to respond to criticisms and give reasons for their actions. Hindsight is valuable as it may be a main driver for deciding how to alter response to the disease in the coming months. Without public criticism of testing levels and PPE supply/distribution improvements might not be happening even at the present rate.

      If Sweden’s response works, are another wave of experts going to start criticising governments for being over zealous in imposing lockdowns?

      Surely it makes sense for all countries’ experiences with handling the pandemic to be discussed, China, South Korea, Germany, Sweden et al, and our own policy modified if appropriate.

    • #5963

      Peter
      Participant

      Sorry, this is just a Trumpian argument “who knew”? Shit happens, give them a break, they are doing the best they can.

      No, this is not good enough!

      If they had got away with it and our outcomes were broadly in line with other similar countries then views like mine might be more academic arguments about how maybe things could have been better. However, it is looking increasingly like they didn’t and (hopefully not too many) people who probably didn’t need to are going to die.

      The media focus on PPE is no bad thing but what can’t be forgotten is the fatal early delays driven by a group of rabid ideologues whose only access to power is through gaining influence over the governing clique of one of the parties in what is basically a two party system.

      Arguments like yours which I’m certain will get stronger over the next few weeks and months are just a means of avoiding proper scrutiny and accounting for these early decisions.

      • #5967

        friend
        Participant

        Just to be clear. I wasn’t putting forth any argument for or against the governments handling of the crisis, merely stating that not being the ones making the calls and having the benefit of hindsight its very easy to cast judgement and criticize.

    • #5964

      Orange
      Participant

      Unprecedented maybe but not unexpected.

      Despite the knowledge that there was a global threat due to a pandemic (documented in US studies and government briefings) and that we were ill equipped to deal with that threat (Exercise Cygnus 2016) when COVID-19 materialised as a threat our governments response was slow and incompetent.

      We are still not testing as per WHO guidelines.

      NHS staff are still working without correct levels of PPE.

      Ventilators?

      Over 11,000 people have died. How many are due to the governments actions, or lack of them?

      Why should their decisions and actions not be scrutinised? Their jobs come with this level of responsibility.

    • #5965

      Davedave
      Participant

      Seems to me to be very easy to fire shots. It’s a pretty unprecedented situation we are in and with hindsight easy to lob stones over what was done, wasnt done, could have should have been done.

      Yes. The interesting thing about the internet though is it’s easily possible to see who was lobbing those well deserved missiles stones with foresight. Also who was mocking them for being alarmist.

      If Sweden’s response works, are another wave of experts going to start criticising governments for being over zealous in imposing lockdowns?

      If Sweden copes well good for Sweden. Sweden isn’t Britain.

    • #5966

      toerag
      Participant

      Do you remember when the Government said “we are 2 weeks behind Italy” and then did nothing to avoid following Italy 5 weeks ago? instead of perhaps instigating an instant lock down they waited another 2 and half weeks before implementing a far less stringent lock down than italy?

      One of my colleagues went to New Zealand on the 14th February he was told by the company in no uncertain terms that he must quarantine on his return for 2 weeks (which he did). This is clear evidence that we all knew what was coming.

      Sweden’s response is already showing results much worse than Denmark (comparable economy/population size).

      5 weeks ago Italy in dire straights was all over our papers, now we have more daily deaths than they have at any point, our papers are full of yay boris!.

      Criticism of our government is well overdue. They are killing us with their incompetence. Our front line staff are having to rely on PPE made by general public on 3d Printers FFS.

      And this is before considering that they have run the service into the ground over the last 10 years

    • #5968

      fudgeface
      Participant

      I agree in broad terms, and I dont think it responded significantly worse than say France, Italy or Spain. However, the government has been appalling with communication and is getting worse. As one example herd immunity has become a political term when it is simply essential one way or the other. Also getting the exit right is vital and that requires planning, testing and perfect communication.

      • #5969

        Davedave
        Participant

        I think the various scientists/medical people have been communicating quite well, to be honest. It’s been whoever’s at the middle podium that hasn’t.

      • #5971

        prat
        Participant

        but they had a good 2-4 weeks longer to react. And then bungled it, changing plans every 2-3 days.

        • #5972

          fudgeface
          Participant

          It wasn’t perfect with hindsight, no, but I dont think it was terrible and don’t think an significantly earlier lockdown was politically possible. The IC model had a big effect when it was available.

    • #5970

      prat
      Participant

      They were very very slow. Allowing events like the races to go on was criminal. They knew it was coming. They ignored the warnings. I can understand making early decisions and getting them wrong, they just did nothing.

    • #5973

      AngryFish
      Participant

      I’ve no idea what you do for a living, but will you be still questioning the ‘shot firers’ when you’re one of the, potentially, 2.1 Million people who’ve lost their jobs and have to suffer the ignominy of Universal Credit?

      Never the mind-numbing statistics that get trotted out every day.

    • #5974

      bear
      Participant

      I don’t think the Government has been lax in their response to this specific case. As they keep repeating, they are following expert advice which is ironic as they did not listen to the expert advice in 2016 that said if there were to be a pandemic we were not ready. For that they are wholly responsible.

Viewing 14 reply threads

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.